Golconda - the vampire nirvana

Okay, this is mostly directed towards Mr. farthmeista. What exactly is Golconda. It is a bit of info on it in the Vampire core rule book, but not much. Basically what it says is that Golconda is a state of perfect balance between the Beast and its Hunger with the concious mind. Now that sounds all well and good, but if Golconda is like a vamps nirvana, shouldn't that have some awesome benefits for the vamp in question?
What do you think about this, Boehlke?

Well... Firstly, in my opinion Golconda exists only as a legend. There might be a few who strives to achieve the state of Golconda. Ordo Dracul is one of them. Both the Spear and the Chrone has ways to overcome aspects of the vampire state, maybe the Chrone more so than the Spear. The path of Golconda surfaced to most Kindred during the time of Vlad Tepes II. When he died and rose, he strove to make amends of his sins in his life. He was the one discovering the first coils. Some say he became so in tune with vampirism he is to be considered above clans. Some say he is able to embrace Kine into whatever Clan he wish. Some even say he found a way to see the sunlight again, if only briefly. He disappeared a long time ago, there is a lot of theories as to what happened to him. Some say he is in torpor, some say he met his final death. And there are some bold Dragons claiming he achieved the state of Golconda and became Mortal again.

This is only a fraction of rumors about Dracula and his research in Vampirism. And all these are things one could consider. Some of the most powerful coils makes it possible to walk outside during Dawn and dusk, or twilight. Some other powerful Coils can help you transcend the thirst, making you capable of walking during the day without penalties for 3 months, during that time you won't even need to feed... Unless you use disciplines that is.

When taking this into account, I'm not sure I buy that becoming human again rumor. What I believe is... That no true salvation exists. But you can improve yourself to the point that with only a glance you look like a whole other entity than a Vampire. The beast so thoroughly dominated by your will it is close to none-existent, being able to walk outside during twilight, being able to be awake for 3 months without interruption, and not needing to feed for 3 months either, being able to escape the nightmare of torpor with your mind intact: The list is long. And well... I think this is as much the state of Golconda as any. But true Golconda? True Transcendence? To the point you rid the curse of Vampirism entirely? No... I don't believe in such notions. This is THE World of Darkness after all.

What do you think?

Well, if there is one such thing as True Transcendance, it would be Final Death, when the vamp has actively strove to repent his sins. You know, the good recieving their reward in heaven and all that.
But Golconda ridding the vamp of the curse seems too farfetched too me. Maybe in the most pure examples, where the vamp has a humanity of 11 or 12 or something. Perhaps then.
But as you said, it is possible to limit and overcome certain points of the curse. With the correct combination of coils, the vamp never needs to feed from humans again and such things.
But to be able to stay awake for 3 months, not feed for 3 months and walking during Twilight, that is one badass and very old vampire we're talking about. I mean, that vamp has almost reached the point where the benefits of vampirism overshadows the curse itself. Especially if the will is so strong, the Beast is practically tamed.
But as you said, this is the world of darkness. True transcendance is probably only a dream for a few religious vamps.

Yeah. In order to achieve Golconda you would either have to spend considerable time trying to perfect or dampen the curse. Or you would have to find another one who has achieved Golconda and is willing to teach you. For the first option we talk maybe 3 - 5 torpors, and that would probably range from 200 - 500 years. The second option, finding one who has achieved Golconda is just as hard, why? I'll elabroate:

You have achieved Golconda, you have survived half a millenia, no small feat. You have had your victories and setbacks both materialistic and psychic. You are able to sustain yourself, note that this is extreme, for 3 months without feeding, at this point you'd be starving of course. Think of all the sacrifice, all the hard work, all the mental work you'd have to do to pull that off. You don't need to sleep anymore either, the feeding and sleeping part goes hand in hand. Now, you can do twice as much as any Kine or Kindred because, well, you are awake 24/7, if you choose that is. Even torpor won't frighten you at this point, you have learned the secret of a safe torpor, and can safely sleep for 500 years without any ill effects, or you may choose not to go into torpor at all. You have even learned how to subdue the beast to such a degree that you are in total control. You control the beast now, not the other way around. What all this does, is; you don't need to put yourself in dangerous positions on a nightly basis; Feeding, risking humanity loss, fighting because the beast goes bannanas at first encounter, or because someone lights a lighter etc.

As a result you have most likely retired, at least partially from the Kindred society(This is the steretype Golcondist). Their barbarism and villainy does not suit you. Why can't I be a super sadistic fuck that have reached Golconda? I'll tell you why. Reaching Golconda is sought after because you wish to do something good, mostly for your own sake, but also for the sake of others. And well, If you where to teach another the way to Golconda, would you teach it to some hedonist sadist with a fetish on eye apples? No, you would not. This kind of power in the wrong hands would become real ugly. That's why Golconda only survive as a legend, a rumor.

To the point you said in order to reach Golconda you would need humanity 12. Yes. That's correct. To achieve Golconda you would need to be 10 humanity, a saint. However, you could look at it another way. As time goes, and you learn about yourself and others slowly working your way towards Golconda, you start to understand and reflect. By the time you reach Golconda, you might be a humanity 4 Kindred. But when you go past the threshold you get a revelation. A revelation so powerful you simply "get" the whole thing, the result is you change your ways from that point on, and in one second you rise from humanity 4 to humanity 10. That is, in essence what reaching Golconda is. A revelation of sorts that changes you dramatically.

Also, think of how it would be to have reached Golconda, and others know you have. That I think would be very troublesome for you. Either some dick will try to blackmail you into showing them the way, although it might be impossible for them to reach it the way you did, reaching Golconda might be very individual too. Or maybe you get a pack of blood horny neonates on your back who wants nothing else than to drain you dry in the hopes that they will then "consume" Golconda and be elevated. Of course that is impossible, but people are dumb.

What? The discussion died with my last post?